When the refugee crisis began in 2015, I was 14 years old. Back then, I wasn’t yet interested in politics – all my opinions in that regard were adopted from the “trusted adults” in my life (a.k.a. my parents and teachers). I vividly remember the moment when I was cooking in the kitchen, and listening to my dad’s warnings about those “dangerous migrants coming to Europe on boats”. Perhaps at the same moment, a few hundred kilometers away, Omar’s boat was approaching the Greek border…
I met Omar in 2023, when we both worked at Radio WNE and when Syria was still under the dictatorship of Bashar al-Assad. When he told me the story of his arrival in Europe, the story you’re about to read, I was shocked – it sounded like an action movie. And yet it is the reality – and quite often the only way for tens of thousands of people to preserve their morals and escape prison or even death. My dad’s words came to mind again: Would he change his opinion about refugees if he heard Omar’s story? Would others change theirs as well?
The thing is that while alarmist stories about refugees frighten us on a daily basis, the testimonies from the actual refugees are not as common. This is often due to the language barrier – for example, Omar doesn’t speak English – but also to the fact that people simply tend to stay in their national communities – even though there are many foreigners in France, I know from my own experience that the French and the foreign communities rarely meet in real life…
But that’s exactly why podcast AnnaTalks exists and why, in March 2025 I interviewed Omar for it. And because the interview is in French and I don’t want to deprive those of you who don’t understand it, you can find an English translation below. Enjoy reading!
What happened in Syria?
To begin, could you describe what it was like growing up in Syria for you ?
I grew up like most Syrians who were born in Syria, I went to school there and stayed until 2013, when I was about 17 or 18 years old. I lived in a town called Douma, around 15 km from Damascus. We were ordinary people living in their city.
How would you describe Syrians as a nation? Is there some trait that all Syrians have in common?
My view of Syria is that we actually didn’t know each other before the revolution. In Syria there are around 20 different ethnic and national groups, so there is not a single national identity shared by everyone. I think most Syrians feel like some second-class citizens because we don’t really have this concept of “citizenship” – you never hear it in Syria. But the one thing we did all share was the fear of the secret intelligence services and the feeling that this country does not belong to us. I think the dictatorship we lived under is the only thing that the 24 millions of Syrians share.
Could you explain what happened in Syria? Give some context about Assad’s regime and about what happened in 2011?
I’ll be very simple: In 1970, Hafez al-Assad, the former Syrian president and the father of Bashar al-Assad, took power through a coup and he ruled for 30 years. When he died in 2000, the Syrian parliament modified the constitution so his son Bashar could take over – just to keep power in the hands of the family. Bashar al-Assad promised us to make political and economic reforms. And he partially did – things got a bit better in the economy. But the political violence in Syria was the same as during his father’s time.
In 2011, after the Arab Spring revolutions started first in Tunisia, then in Egypt, it arrived in Syria. In March 2011, a group of boys, between 13 and 15 years old, wrote on the walls of the city of Daraa in the south of Syria “It’s your turn now, Doctor”. “Doctor” referring to Bashar al-Assad, because he used to be an ophthalmologist.
That’s when the revolution really started. At first, it was not a military revolution, just peaceful demonstrations, demands for political freedom, freedom of expression. City after city joined. Until we arrived at a moment when the whole of Syria was demonstrating.
I was 15 at that time and I joined the demonstrations in my city Douma. And I saw the Syrian army shoot at peaceful people with my own eyes. We weren’t even calling for the fall of the regime at first, nor for the condemnation of Assad – we were too afraid to do that. But the regime escalated the violence. By the end of 2011, they were bombing entire cities. In 2013, they committed the first chemical attack. It was in my city. It was 21 August 2013. At that moment we understood that even if we did not participate in demonstrations or in military actions, we would be killed.
Since, we had lost our house, and my parents had lost their jobs, we couldn’t leave so easily. We had to sell our car, and take a bus to the north of Syria, to the Turkish border. We spent 11 or 12 hours on the bus. On that journey, for the first time, I saw Daesh and all the armed groups active in Syria at the time.
Can you explain what Daesh is for those who don’t know?
Daesh is a jihadist military group that wants to apply Sharia to the entire world. For them, democracy, the concept of citizenship – it doesn’t exist, that’s for the West, for Christians, for people who don’t resemble them. They try to apply the Quran to the people no matter where they are. Daesh is an international group. They are not Syrians, they are not Iraqis, they are not Tunisians. Members of Daesh come from all over the world : France, Belgium, Europe… But they share the same Islamic vision of the world. They want to create an Islamic state that applies Islamic rules to people. They don’t have one specific place – they are everywhere. But in Syria they had the opportunity to start creating their state since Syria was in a war situation and therefore it was much easier to intervene there.
Journey to Europe
We stopped when you traveled to the Turkish border, right?
Yes. After that I spent two years in Turkey with my family. Then I decided to leave the country because the situation of Syrians was not regulated in Turkey at that time. I decided to go to Europe, and I made this decision in 48 hours. After that I immediately left the house, because I was very stressed about crossing the sea in a boat. I told myself, the faster, the better. I took a boat from Turkey to Greece. We set off at 11 p.m and arrived around 4:30 or 5 in the morning. Then I spent two days there to get the authorization to go to Macedonia. After I got my papers, I took a bus to the Macedonian border. I crossed it on foot. It wasn’t very complicated.
In Macedonia I took a train to reach the Serbian border. Border guards checked me three times. After I crossed from Macedonia to Serbia, I went to Belgrade, the capital. I found a smuggler who could get me across the border to Hungary without being arrested by the police.
As an asylum seeker, when you go for example to Greece, you must get a paper that authorizes you to leave Greece. Otherwise you can travel only inside the country. In Macedonia, there were no such procedures – it’s a small country; you can cross it in one day – I didn’t even spend a night there. In Serbia, you need documents, but I didn’t get them because there is corruption: you can pay 50 euros and everything goes through. But the problem was entering the first country in the European Union.
I met the smuggler, and spent four nights in Belgrade preparing the journey. Then we left for Hungary. In a truck, with about 30 people. We arrived in a forest. It was a night and raining. And the smuggler told us, “Listen, we must spend the night here.” We found an abandoned ruin and slept there. We stayed for two more nights, but not in that ruin anymore, we were a little further away in the forest with the smuggler trying to cross the borders. But we couldn’t. The Hungarian police were still there, and would arrest us.
During all this time I was seriously ill, the third evening I told myself, I’m going out anyway, even if I get arrested. I walked around three kilometers, then a police car came toward me. They said, “Hello, my friend.” I just said, “Open the door,” I didn’t even have the strength to walk. I spent a week in Hungarian prison. They gave me the choice: either I ask for asylum in Hungary, or I return to Serbia. I had already paid 1 700 euros to cross the borders. And I didn’t even have my passport, I left it in Turkey because I didn’t want to ruin it at the sea.
So I applied for asylum in Hungary and was released after a week. When I left the prison, my smuggler called me saying, “I know you were in prison. I don’t want to give your money back, but I can take you to Germany tonight.” I was in Budapest at that moment. He gave me a meeting point, and we left.
I was in a truck with 20 other people. They were all Afghans. Only I was Syrian, which surprised me, because in 2015, when I decided to come here, many Syrians were crossing to Europe. We spent the whole night in the truck. Around 8 or 9 in the morning, they opened the door and told us, “You are in Germany.” It was in the countryside. I didn’t know if I was really in Germany or not. I walked north, then found a hotel with a German flag. Only then I could say to myself, “I am in Germany.” Then I took the train to France, to Strasbourg, because I had old friends there. And my brother was also living in France.
What would have happened to you if you had stayed in Syria?
When I was leaving Syria, there was mandatory military service. During and before the revolution, it was two years of service. But after the revolution, it became unlimited. I have cousins who spent seven or eight years in the army. For me, it was too hard to join the Syrian army that killed my friends, and then attack Syrians who were asking for their freedom. There was no choice in Syria. Either you become a killer, or you are killed. You would either be a soldier of the regime, or a soldier of the revolution. For me, it was not my goal to take a weapon and kill people.
I think that’s also why many men left the country, right? Because some Europeans say it’s weird that most refugees are young men. But it’s completely logical, because they don’t want to go to war. Whereas women don’t have this obligation of military service, or…?
Yes, that is true. In Syria it wasn’t an enemy coming from outside the country. It was Syrians. And in my opinion, the incredible bloodshed that happened in Syria really broke people and caused us to wait 14 years for freedom. Almost 500 000 people were killed, 200 000 disappeared in regime prisons. That was not my goal. Even outside Syria, I always supported the revolution, but in my way – not with weapons or military actions.
Did your choice to not get physically involved affect your relationships with your friends or family?
Yes, of course. For me, it was a moral choice. And it happens only once in life – the revolution will never repeat in Syria in the same way against the regime. I had an aunt from my mother’s side with whom I cut off contact in 2012 because she wasn’t with the revolution. For me, I don’t care whether she is with the revolution or not – not all Syrians were afterall. But attacking people verbally, and insulting them because they ask for their rights, that’s where I draw a line. I buried my friends when I was 14. For me, revolution was the only cause I ever supported. Also, I had the same problem with friends who joined jihadist groups. I had many friends who did that and I never agreed with them.
I mean, we shouldn’t give moral lessons to the people who disagree with us, we just can’t, it’s their right. My problem was when they started attacking others. If it is just a question of discourse, no one is in danger of going to prison, it is completely different – like here in France: if someone is with the far right, I am able to talk with him. But with someone who supports the Assad regime, it is impossible. And there is no point; if he saw all the massacres in front of him and hasn’t changed his opinion, he will never change.
What would you say to people in Europe who want immigrants to “go back home”?
For me, France is home now. I’ve lived here ten years. I have never done anything that harms France, never bothered anyone – and honestly I think immigrants who support France are much more numerous than those who do something bad here. I work, I study, I pay my taxes, I have friends – Syrian and French. For me, “going home,” means going to France. I do not consider myself a foreigner today. When politicians speak negatively about immigrants, I don’t even feel concerned. Because I belong to France. Of course I was born Syrian and I remain Syrian, but I can be both Syrian and French. I am not obliged to leave one nationality or one country to live in another. Even if tomorrow I visit Syria, I know I will return to France. I will continue my life here.
Syria after the fall of Bashar al-Assad
How did you learn about the fall of the regime and what was your first reaction?
There was a military operation by opposition groups to the regime to take the city of Aleppo. At first I thought it was just a regular military operation that would serve Turkey (supporting the opposition and trying to negotiate with Assad at that time) as a bargaining tool. They took Aleppo and continued towards Hama and Damascus. I noticed that the Russians were not attacking… Normally when the revolutionaries liberate a city, the Russians airstrike it immediately – but now we had two nights without Russian attacks. I knew something was going on.
Wait, so even after the start of the war in Ukraine, the Russians stayed militarily involved in Syria?
Yes, they did. But in my opinion they were less strong and wanted to let the Syrian regime fall. They no longer wanted to support Assad.
When the revolutionaries arrived in Hama, I was at university, watching TV on my computer, and Erdoğan declared that they are now continuing toward Damascus. It was the first official statement about Damascus. I packed my things and told my professor, “Sorry, but I can’t continue the class, I am going home – the Syrian regime is collapsing.” And I left. I stayed 48 hours glued to the screen. I didn’t sleep, I didn’t eat, I did nothing – just watched TV. It was December 8, at 5 a.m., when they declared that Damascus was without Bashar al-Assad and that he had fled to Russia.
It was an incredible moment for all Syrians. I never wanted to experience any other moment more than the fall of regime. If you had asked me on December 1 whether I would return to Syria or whether the regime would fall, I would have said no, impossible. I really cannot express these emotions. I think it is the first, last, and only time we will ever feel these feelings of freedom. Seeing the people liberated from Assad’s prison – the infamous Sednaya prison – was a historic moment for all Syrians. It was the only time I cried from joy. None of us believed we would live to see this.
At the beginning you thought it was going to be a normal operation like the many before. Why do you think this time it was different? What was the factor that made the revolution succeed this time?
Several reasons: the revolutionaries were well prepared before starting the operation; the war in Gaza weakened Hezbollah and Iran – allies of the Syrian regime, plus Assad betrayed these allies by providing sensitive information about them to Israel… Also, Syrian soldiers no longer wanted to fight – they were not paid, they did not live well… Because of the war in Ukraine Russia did not have the capacity to continue to support Assad either.
Bashar al-Assad was someone who only wanted to wage war, he took everything but gave nothing in return. He controlled almost 70% of Syrian territory since 2018 and changed nothing, the people suffered more and more. So I think there was an international and national agreement to end his regime.
What do you think will happen now? Aren’t you afraid that another authoritarian regime will emerge?
Those who took power in Syria are a jihadist group. But so far, they are quite pragmatic. They have many faults, that’s for sure. But I think they also understand that they cannot change everything. Syria is not Afghanistan. In Syria freedom is essential for people – and I mean the social freedom: wearing what you want, going out, drinking alcohol… In Syria that is normal and for now, they have done nothing against that. Which is good.
I think we cannot really say that it is an authoritarian regime before seeing the elections and the constitution they are preparing. In a year and half there should be a transition of power. And then we will see if they really came to free the people or just to have power. The revolution in military terms is finished, but in philosophical terms, it will never end. But the essential thing today is that people are no longer dying just for demanding their rights and freedom.
Do you plan to return to Syria in the future? At least for a visit? Because it probably wasn’t possible before – if you returned you would be taken for military service, right?
In Syria I faced two problems: mandatory military service and the fact that I had openly criticized the regime. I wasn’t afraid for relatives – my family lives in Turkey – so I always spoke honestly. Therefore I didn’t have a possibility of returning to Syria. And, before the regime fell, I would rather die than go back there. But now the situation has completely changed – I will definitely return to visit the country. Plus, our house seized by the regime returned to us. But I think I will never return to live there permanently – at least not in the future 10 years.
Why was your house confiscated?
The Syrian regime was seizing the property of all Syrians who were summoned for military service but did not show up without paying the exemption fee which was 10 000 dollars per person. But me and my three brothers had a moral problem with it. And since we wanted to leave and never return back, we told ourselves, let’s go – they can take whatever they want. Luckily, after the fall of the regime, the new authorities annulled the obligatory military service. Nowadays there’s a professional army like in France.
In AnnaTalks I always ask a question about tourism. But in Syria it’s a little bit specific. I have already seen people travelling to Syria during the regime – do you find this ethical?
No. It was never ethical. I don’t understand how you can go to a country where you can hear the voices of oppressed people and enjoy your stay there as if nothing was happening. First of all, it cleans the international image of the regime. Secondly, you are obliged to spend your money there – yes, it helps the locals, but it also helps the regime. We should stop supporting such regimes. For example, I always wanted to go to Egypt, but I never did because there is a dictature.
Plus, there was another problem: not all Syrians could go to Syria – like me for example – but foreigners could, and no one would touch them. And they didn’t even have to pay for a visa. Whereas a Syrian would have had to pay 100 dollars. Moreover, the regime invited and paid many Western journalists to improve its image. So no, it’s not ethical – from Arabs, from Syrians, from Europeans and Westerners. The Syrian regime should have been boycotted.
But today, I think everybody should go to Syria. To enjoy this country, and to see the effects of Assad’s regime. I don’t think any other regime has treated its people like this since the Nazis.
What nice places should we visit in Syria? But also where should we go to see the effects of the regime?
You can see that everywhere – except in Damascus, that was not attacked. But five kilometers from Damascus, you already see it. When I saw photos of my street and apartment, I didn’t recognize them – and I grew up there. But in Damascus there are also many beautiful places. You should also visit Latakia near the sea and the regions near Turkey – where there is a lot to see and do.